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Staff photo by Joshua Payne
Senath City Marshall Omar Karnes asked the council to reimburse the officers' gas from the training fund, which is designated for officer's training programs.
Senath Mayor Joe Lane noted that the only officers that attend the courses are Karnes and police officer Jerad Callahan.
Karnes informed Lane that police officer Joe McLain had recently shown interest in participating in some of the courses.
"Let him go to this next one and one of you stay at home," Lane said.
Callahan explained to Lane that McLain had been asked about the courses several times.
"I am all for him [McLain] taking some of these courses," Karnes said.
Lane noted that the Sheriff's Department functions normally, without the need to travel the state going to classes.
Karnes informed Lane that the Sheriff's Department does go all over the state, attending various trainings and professional development courses.
"Are they up there at Marshall, Mo., taking your homicide class?" Lane asked.
Karnes answered the mayor's question by informing him that the Sheriff's Department takes courses in St. Louis, Mo., and Kansas City, Mo.
'The Sheriff's Department operates on county money,' Mayor Lane responded, adding that his suggestion would be that the board not approve the request.
Alderman Patsy Davis asked if both officers were required to go at the same time.
"It's the only time of the class, so yes," Karnes replied.
Lane mentioned that another officer would have to be hired to take the missing officer's places during the trip.
McLain covered the 36 hours that the officers were out of town, according to Karnes. He added that McLain received time off for covering the additional hours.
Alderman Bud Brooks informed Karnes that his concern was that the council did not know about the trip before it happened.
"Who gave you boys permission to leave town," Brooks asked
"I don't need the city council's permission to leave town," Karnes said.
Lane asked if Karnes thought he could just do anything he wanted to do.
"I can do what my job requires me to do," Karnes said.
"Just make sure that's what you do because you still answer to this mayor and this board," Lane said.
"State law said that I answer to the people who elected me," Karnes said.
Lane indicated that it seemed that the other towns were not participating in the schools that state law required 'so they were not legal.'
Karnes responded, informing Lane that he was not worried about the other cities, but wanted to ensure that his officers received proper training.
"You don't need that training up there and this city can't afford to send the officers to the training," Lane said.
Brooks noted that Karnes may not need permission, but Callahan was a city employee and answers to the mayor and council.
"So I don't go by what my chief tells me," Callahan asked.
"No," Brooks responded.
"He is not your boss," Lane added.
Karnes interjected, noting that he, as city marshall, was, in fact, Callahan's boss by state law.
"I'll tell you what Jerad, you mess up and I am going to show your boss that we can fire you without even asking him," Lane said. "But you are not being fired, I am just making a point."
Lane noted that he believed everything surrounding trainings and professional development should be local, and that was his recommendation. Brooks commented that he agreed with Lane on the issue.
"We don't have to go to homicide school," Lane said.
Karnes informed Lane that the officers could also attend classes on several topics including vehicle searches and officer diversity.
"Well I am afraid you would be in court too much," Lane said. "You boys like to stay at the prosecutors office too much."
"We have to investigate homicide cases and other crimes inside the City of Senath," Karnes said.
"The county will come down and do that," Lane said. "We don't need to be investigating homicides in the city, because the sheriff's department will take care of that for us."
Following a lengthy debate between local authorities, the Mayor, and council members, the motion to pay for the final class in the homicide training and reimburse the officers on the final trip but not for the previous trips, was approved. This was due to the officer's not bringing the trip to the notice of the council prior to participating.
Also during the meeting:
* Davis noted that the Breast Cancer Walk had been moved to October 10;
* Lane informed the council that the city could possibly receive grants for a new backhoe and for blacktopping South State Street and Caneer Street;
* Lane informed the council that two other grants had been submitted for $1.5 million for a new water tower and water hook-ups and $1.6 million dollars for streets and drainage;
* The council reminded individual that the Park Board's October Festival in the Park would be starting at 10:30 a.m., on October 3, with all day music, crafts, refreshments, and hourly drawings beginning at 1 p.m.;
* The council approved two ordinances read by title only in the outlawing of Pitt Bulldogs in the City of Senath, and the adopting of the new employee Sick Leave and Vacation times;
*The next Senath City Council meeting is scheduled at 7 p.m., Monday, November 9, 2009.
Comments
Well the Senath Mayor and Mr. Brooks sounds like a couple of arrogant uneducated nuts! Why have a police force if you don't want them to investigate and just want to rely on the county? THe Senath officers would probably be the first on the scene if a murder or major crime happened and would need to have the training to be able to secure the scene and evidence properly.
I have always wondered why the towns around here can not keep or attract quality police officers. I think I now have the answer to that question
it is just such small minded mayors who dont want any change or improvments to the cities which cause these conflicts. The changes in law enforcment are astronomical and the courts and law makers are working over time to keep up. the old days of telling billy bob to leave mary lou alone or i will thump your head and take you to jail are past. Andy Griffith and Mayberry do not exist (too bad) but we have to adapt and get trained people or fall further behind. Kudos to you city Marshal Karnes and standing up for your offic and officers.you cant get too much training
OMG! Citizens of Senath, Can you see what Morons we have running our city?(Lane, Brooks, Davis) I commend Omar Karnes for letting Lane, Davis, and Brooks know, that the people elected Omar Karnes and weren't appointed by the Three Stooges. It seems as if these three own the town. As far as i'm concerned, these three are arrogant fools. Not worthy of the job titles they possess. On another note, Senath doesn't want to help pay for expences to better our officers, which in turn serves the people, but Lane wants to buy a new backhoe and do some more paving. (((Are You Serious))) Isn't that a hoot? Remember the fine job of paving the streets last time? Remember all the New sunken streets and Brooks signing off on the job knowing it needed to be repaired. Mercy people, when is enough enough. I know, we could do without a Mayor and a couple city council men/women a whole lot easier than two police officials.
We need the cops on duty we have a serious drug problem in senath unless you are wearing rose colored glasses get the drug heads off the street.
What would be the purpose of the officers training fund if not officers training expenses?
What is the purpose of City officers if not protect and serve the city, including homicide investigation?
Maybe the citizens of Senath should ask their elected officials these, and other, questions. The answers could be interesting.
Well the Mayor is the one that needs to be impeached! He is worthless! He does not stand behind the other elected officials in this town but he expects everyone to stand behind him. They need to work together! And Jared should answer to the Chief he knows the law not some crooked mayor! And sorry excuse of an alderman Bud Brooks!
WOW. This is unbelievable just like the first time that Joe Lane was mayor he likes to Micro Manage everything. Hey JOE you are the Mayor your job is to make sure that the citizens of Senath are protected and safe. Sending officers to training is the best way to do that. OH by the way, I want to know if "Officer" Joe McClain has at least a POST B License. Which is Required to work as a police officer. If not, Joe McClain is working Illegally as an officer, and all of his arrests and tickets are ILLEGAL. Senath needs to make sure that all officers are current with their POST training. A quick phone call to POST will create problems for the entire city.
Please everyone, stop and think about what message you are sending. From what I am reading, you are saying it is appropriate that Mr. Karnes be allowed to spend your tax dollars in any manner that HE feels is needed. I thought that is what we elected our Mayor and Aldermen to do. Why would it have not been more appropriate for the Marshall to attend these classes alone and bring his knowledge back to his officers? Cost to the City would have been greatly reduced and just as effective. This is not a big city and I don't believe that homicide is at the top of the list of crimes committed in Senath. Why not get more training locally on crimes that are more prevalent in our town. If he does want this training for his officers, let him request these costs BEFORE the fact and not after the fact. His lack of planning only shows that he may NOT be the best person for his position. A Marshall needs to be levelheaded and organized, not hotheaded and demanding.
The classes are not offered locally. And yes the fund is for police training so why not use it for that very reason? Before or after the cost is the same and they would have paid it, Joe is just being nit picky. Mayor Joe is not Omar's boss nor is the board. Also Omar spoke to Joe about the class and Joe told him if they went they had to take their personal car, so Joe knew they were going. Times change we may just need our officers to know the techniques they learned. I want them to be able to process the scene and know what to do and not do in the event there is a murder. If it was a member of your family that was killed you would want the cops to be able to preserve the scene and evidence in order to track the killer not make some simple mistake and compromise the entire case!
Anybody remember Boss Hogg on the "Dukes of Hazzard" TV show?
ConcernedSenathResident:
Before you comment you should check to see where the funds for the officers training fund come from. Is it your tax dollars or is it actually a portion of fines paid from tickets written by Officers?
And who would be better to choose what to spend an officers training fund on, the mayor and aldermen or the elected Marshall? It's apparent that the mayor and alderman in question have no idea about the criminal justice system or they would see the folly of the comment about letting the County Sheriffs Dept handle it. The same is true for the comment about the Sheriffs Dept's training requirements and schedule. The Dunklin County Sheriff's Department has a lot of ground to cover outside of any city limits, but if you think they should police the towns as well, what do you think the city police are for?
As for the Marshall attending the classes and returning to train the officers. I'm sure that works sometimes, but not always. I have a college degree in computer networking let me just pass all that info over to you and you go try to get a job or advancement in your current job with that knowledge... guess what! It's not what you know so much as it is what you have a piece of paper saying you know!
Lastly I'm quite sure the Marshall spoke with the mayor about the trainings prior to attending.
These small towns would be much better off if the elected officials took the time to know their job and the laws pertaining to them, instead of thinking just because they are elected mayor or alderman they are king over the town with free rein to rule over the serfs in whatever way profits them most!
To CowPatty: Excellent point! I totally agree!
The board members or mayor should have no business in police business other than to see that they are doing their job by the missouri state laws, Dunklin county laws, and the Senath city laws and if not; then have a meeting and vote on what to do. They shouldn't be telling them where or what type of training to get or not to get. If the funding is there for the police training then Omar should be able to decide what training is necessary. If no funds are left then - no training. He should also be allowed to oversee the officers under him as he needs to without Mr. Lane and Mr. Brooks interferring.
I'll add another note.
It seems some people question the Senath PD's need for class's in Homicide.
In the last 6 months Senath has had a Gun in the School, a Stabbing, a Throat Cutting, in addition to drug busts, and other potentially fatal cases.
That's 4 close calls in 6 Months I know of and I don't even live in Senath!
If you want conformation just do a search on DDD for Karnes, 3 of the 4 are in the first 10 results.
Still think they don't need the training?
I not suer if anyone realizes that the state requires any certified officer in the state to have so many hours of training every year to maintain their ceritfication, and they must be certified to work.
Well Cowpatty, guess what!
I don't have that degree, but I am the manager over 5 others who do have degrees and 4 who do not. Let me tell you, those who do not have that degree you so proudly speak of, are much better employees than those who think that piece of paper should give them extra privileges. Guess what, if you really know what you are doing, it doesn't matter what that piece of paper says. I worked hard and learned through experience, not classes put on by some organization where the emphasis is on the Happy Hour. Now, Guess what else, the manager of our IT Dept doesn't have that piece of paper either, but some who work under her do. Imagine that, I guess that piece of paper says nothing at all as long as you are good at what you do.
Money collected for fines is City money, not Police Dept monies and is the responsibility of the Mayor and Aldermen to make sure that it is used wisely. If the city collects enough fines in a years time to pay the salaries of the City Marshall and all of its police officers, then the city should use the remaining for training. I don't believe this to be the case. So............yes, it is my tax dollars paying for this training.
CSR I agree that actuall knowledge is better than a hottietottie degree. But degrees are what get you jobs. I personally learned most of what I know prior to college, the rest on the job. What I learned at college is how evil Salley-Mae Loan Corp is, but that is a whole different story.
My Company is very much for the professional development of it's employees so if I have the chance to learn they support it. Seems kind of ignorant not to doesn't it? I was in no way saying that college educated people are better people, nor was I trying to offend you. Mearly saying that education is good, why would you not want your law enforcement to be as knowledgeable as possible?
As for your second paragraph... well it's not your choice what the city does with fine money, nor mine, nor is it even the city's choice it is Missouri State Law. You have the interent why not research it.
Cowpatty, I did not mean that education is bad, but if you remember, I suggested that the other police officers gain their education from the City Marshall. Is this not learning also? This is also cost effective.
Now, as for doing my research, check out Missouri Revised Statues for Fourth Class Cities
79.110. The mayor and board of aldermen of each city governed by this chapter shall have the care, management and control of the city and its finances.
Hey ambuguy??? In reply to your comment, the reason it wouldn't be best for just the Chief to go and come back and "share his knowledge" is because the Chief may not be "instructor" certified to do so, which therefore would mean that if the Chief wasn't available and one of the officers who wasn't technically qualified responded to the scene, then the case could get thrown out due to an "unqualified " officer handling it. The leaders of this city, and so many others in that area, make me so thankful i moved away!! May God have mercy on all involved with morons like this!
If the short-sighted and arrogant Mayor and alderman disagree with the Marshall, they can put up a more acceptable candidate for Marshall in the next city election, raise funds, knock on doors, run ads, give speeches, etc., and get Omar run out of office. Careful, though, boys, that is a two-edged sword.
CSR your on the right track. Keep reading and you will find where the officers training fund comes from and how it to be spent. I think we all learned a little more about 4th class cities on this one...
Cowpatty I know that the POST money comes from the state. The money is collected along with the court costs and sent to the state every month. I know that these funds must be used for officer training, but there is a catch. A city doesn't get every dollar back that they submit, they get an amount annually that is determined by the POST administration. Most municipalities will contract with a training organization that will charge that city an amount for training hours needed to meet the training requirements. I also know that most of these organizations charge each city the exact amount of POST funds that they receive. What that means is that the travel expenses, any misc. expenses and any extra classes these officers take are not covered by the POST funds. I also know that the only regulation on a city to pay for the required training is the amount they receive from the POST funds. Municipalities may then require the officers to pay for their own training costs as they see fit. And remember, the City has the power over the finances and my use the POST funds for training in any way that they feel best benefits their citizens.